Robert “Bob” Jesse is a researcher and advocate known for his work co-authoring key Johns Hopkins studies on mystical-type experiences occasioned by psilocybin, founding the Council on Spiritual Practices, and promoting responsible and culturally grounded integration of psychedelics beyond purely medical settings. We discussed with him how mystical experiences are defined and whether they depend on personal belief systems, the legacy of Aldous Huxley, and the role of psychedelics in both religious and secular contexts. Our conversation also touched on the landmark Johns Hopkins psilocybin studies, questions of regulation and open science, and how community values can help mitigate risks while supporting the movement of psychedelics into mainstream culture.

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The questions:

00:00 Intro 00:05 What was your first encounter with psychedelics? 02:55 What do we call a mystical type of experience? 04:38 Does mystical experience relate to the person’s religious beliefs, or is it completely unrelated? 05:45 Can an atheist person have a mystical experience? 06:20 There is a kind of uncertainty with the terminology. Some people speak about hallucinogens or psychedelics or enteogens. How could you define what psychedelics are? 07:24 Aldous Huxley was one of the key persons who introduced psychedelics to the Western culture. How do you see his legacy today? 08:52 How do you define the religious use of psychedelics? 10:26 You made a significant contribution to the Johns Hopkins study on mystical types of experiences on psilocybin. Can you describe your contribution and also, can you talk about the study? 12:39 In the 60s, for many people, psychedelics served as a gateway to eastern spirituality. But as far as I know, for Roland Griffis, it was the other way. So he started to do meditation, and he was very skeptical about psychedelics first. 14:28 Can you shortly explain us the findings of the Johns Hopkins study? 15:41 Some people say Professor Griffiths imposed his religious beliefs on the research participants. Would you comment on that? 17:22 We talk a lot about how to make psychedelics part of the mainstream medical care, but how should we regulate the religious and spiritual use of psychedelics? 19:11 Do you see any signs in America, that psychedelics are abused for profit in the name of spirituality? 20:09 What can we do to mitigate those risks? 20:39 As far as I know, you have initiated a public statement in which you call for open science in the psychedelic research fields. Why do you think that is important?

Reporter: Péter Sárosi
Video: István Gábor Takács

Filmed at the Interdisciplinary Conference on Psychedelic Research (ICPR) 2024 in Haarlem, The Netherlands.